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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Tilo Rhywald
INVARIANT TENSOR
2
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
The nerf to the Rokh's (Abaddon's) resistance bonus really is significant, and I don't approve of it at all.
People who know me in game also know that the Rokh is my one true battleship love. Just as an anecdote: When I first considered subscribing to this game I looked up pictures of the ships in Eve and I thought most of them were so hideous I'd never even consider flying most of them... But there was ONE model that tipped the balance towards giving the game a try: the Rokh. I simply adore this hull, and even back in my PVE days I used it despite knowing it wasn't the best missioning choice by a long shot.
Now, while doing solo-pvp almost exclusively, I really don't understand why the Rokh would need this nerf. If resistance boni are a problem in fleets why not nerf logis or something and leave the Rokh alone? If anything it needs a buff of 25 m^3 additional drone space! It's now totally obvious that it is outclassed its brother in mind (same role, same slot layout, shield tanker,...), the Maelstrom: The Rokh's guns use cap, are limited to a specific damage type, and the ship now sports a much weaker active tank. Just put in in EFT: both with DCII, XLSBII, SBAII and invuln II will give you a Maelstrom that tanks almost precisely 10% (!!) more with easier cap management while dealing comparable amount of DPS. That's all but a triviality.
To the crowd that wants to replace the Rokh's range bonus with a damage bonus: No. Learn to fly a Rokh (or any range-bonused hypbid ship), and you'll see that a range bonus IS a damage bonus. The Rokh is not exclusively a sniper, and it never was supposed to be.
The blaster-Rokh is one of the best and most-fun-to-fly ships solo in the game, while never having been even close to being overpowered (neuts, anyone?). Please don't nerf the most beautiful ship in EVE.
Cheers Tilo R. |
Tilo Rhywald
INVARIANT TENSOR
2
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Posted - 2013.04.08 22:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:
Rokh:
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses: +10% to large Hybrid Turret optimal range +4% Shield resistances per level (-1% per level)
Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 5L; 8 turrets , 0 launchers
Why 0 launchers instead of the former 4 all of the sudden, or is that a mistake? Not that Neut/Torp-setups were very common except for the random wft-moment or that I even like them, but why remove the hardpoints to negate this option?
The more I think about it the more I dislike the resistance nerf on the Rokh. I've seen many changes in the game, but this is the one that finally really pisses me off, even though it seems so small at first glance. No battleship needs a tank nerf, especially after the proliferation of Attack Battlecruisers that made battleships obsolete in far too many scenarios. If you want to hit fleet PvP please do it in a fashion that doesn't hit small-scale PvP even harder.
Cheers Tilo R. |
Tilo Rhywald
INVARIANT TENSOR
4
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Posted - 2013.04.09 12:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
SMT008 wrote: The Rokh didn't change at all except for a VERY LIGHT EHP REDUCTION. Very light means it will lose maybe 8k EHP. It's safe to say that the Rokh didn't change at all. It became a good fleet ship with the Hybrid changes, and will still be a good fleet ship after those changes.
I really dislike the idea of ships being limited to a fleet/blob role, not everybody enjoys that kind of game play - I certainly don't. Making ships less viable for small gangs or 1 vs N won't "bring solo back". Besides that "very light EHP reduction" isn't so light when active-tanked. I compared the new stats with the Maelstrom in one of my earlier posts. How can that difference in solo performance be justified?
I really had hoped for a battleship buff in general to make them useful PvP boats in a much broader variety of situations. Whilst an across-the-board-damage-increase might be game-breaking, one easy way to achieve an improvement for this ship class would be to enhance the tanks. Now the sword of Damocles that the exact opposite might happen is dangling above our heads! This is really frustrating.
Tilo R. |
Tilo Rhywald
INVARIANT TENSOR
7
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Posted - 2013.04.10 15:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
It seems the Hyperion will recieve a significant buff after all - including an enlarged drone bay... All the more reason to reconsider the redundant and impertinent Rokh nerf: Give it those additional 25m^3 of drone space and perhaps some other form of enhancement like an increase in scan resolution.
I find it more than noteworthy that player opinion did have some first effects, and I really want to thank you for this, CCP Rise. Please listen to us in this case, too. I think it's noteworthy that espcecially people like XDMR and myself who fly Rokhs solo on a regular basis are among the most outspoken objectors to the resist nerf. If this ship was somehow too strong in logi fleets, there must be ways to address that without degrading the ships being repped. One of the best analogies for this was the one posted by BiggestT: Nerfing the Rokh's resist bonus to achieve that is like blaming the bread for being burnt by the toaster. Heh.. :)
Cheers Tilo R. |
Tilo Rhywald
INVARIANT TENSOR
8
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Posted - 2013.04.10 17:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Van Mathias wrote:..., add me to the list of dedicated Rokh pilots you have there.
Done. ;)
CCP Rise wrote:I hate to do the soonTM thing, but Fozzie should be making a post soon (I'm not sure if that means today or tomorrow or what) about the Rokh/Abaddon resistance bonus tweak, so just watch for that.
I doubt that this future thread might somehow produce arguments that could negate our points - at all.
One really big argument against the Rokh nerf that hasn't been brought up (to my knowledge) is the following: How many Rokhs were used in the last 3 Alliance Tournaments (the ones I watched for the most part)? I remember a single match of note where Hydra Reloaded used an all Caldari blaster gang including a Rokh in ATVIII. But otherwise... Somebody sure isn't as lazy as me to search for the AT ship stats. ;)
Wouldn't the tournaments be a much better indicator of a ship's performance in total than huge blob fleet fights?
Cheers Tilo R. |
Tilo Rhywald
INVARIANT TENSOR
10
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Posted - 2013.04.10 18:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:More comedy gold itt. Do you seriously think that alliance tournament usage is indicative of in-game balance? Do you not understand point allocation per team and point cost in that artificial combat context? Does all eve combat involve a defined "arena" and limits on numbers or types of ships? Tell me how a ship that is currently tops on eve-kill is going to die off with this 1% nerf. Did you only read this thread and failed to notice that the Abaddon is similarly adjusted? Or, do you think that somehow the Rokh alone should be exempted from an overall adjustment of resist bonuses to 4% per level? The whole point with the resist bonus adjustment is that now a level 5 ship skill will provide a 20% instead of 25% omni-resist buff, which will still be about the best bonus any ship can get. I don't think, and more importantly the devs don't think this will kill off Rokh usage and instead will bring more balance. And in that they will be correct.
You're wrong in all of your conclusions. Don't read too much into a simple statement. I said "better" indicator, not "ideal". If you really need further explanation, it should be absolutely clear that I would only compare the usage of Rokhs vs other battleships in the tournament. Since you brought up the Abaddon: How many of those did we see in the last ATs? The only reason I didn't refer to the Abaddon is that you rarely see it in solo actions and even less with an active tank. To clarify: I'm against the nerf of the resistance bonus in general, and in case of the Rokh it is the most out of place.
Your Eve-Kill stats constitute exactly those huge nullsec fleets, nothing more, and thus they are in no way representative. This specific use of the ship won't die out due to the resistance nerf, agreed. But Rokh and Abaddon both will be hit in other scenarios, most of all in solo combat. I already wrote down the difference in active tank-ability of the proposed Rokh compared to the Maelstrom (at lv5). 10% is huge, especially with cap-using weapons.
Cheers Tilo R. |
Tilo Rhywald
Corpus Alienum Game 0f Tears
12
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Posted - 2013.04.14 11:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Rohk, doesn't change much, or not enough to really matter. (Ya'll, sound like CCP is going to shoot your favorite pet.)
Aside from the fact that it really is my favourite pet - it actually does matter a lot in small-scale combat while large-scale fleet PvP will probably not alter at all. It's tedious having to repeat this simple truth over and over again...
Cheers Tilo R. |
Tilo Rhywald
Corpus Alienum Game 0f Tears
43
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Posted - 2013.05.30 10:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Parcheesie Sauce wrote:Not sure about that resist tweak, I know it's only supposed to be applied to the rokh and the abaddon at the moment; however I'm a little worried this will end with that tweak affecting all the amaar and caldari ships with this resist bonus, and while it's not huge, it's deffinatly enough to make a difference.
The change does apply to all ships with the resist bonus. All your fears come true. |
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